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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:46 am 
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The first five lessons of the Shetland Nynorn tutorial, concentrating mostly on its grammar, are now available at the following location:

http://nornlanguage.x10.mx/index.php?lessons

Some other 10-12 lessons are underway, but don't expect them online tomorrow or the day after. I hope to produce 2-3 lessons a month in order to complete the course by the end of the summer, although delays are quite possible.

Any corrections/suggestions to the first 5 lessons are more than welcome, don't hesitate to post them in this topic.

While working on this course, I also decided to undertake a code audit of the whole website, so some of its parts might look incorrectly while it's going on. Don't be afraid, this will concern only a few minor things and won't affect the general layout. After the audit is completed, the website (especially the Nynorn dictionary) will load faster than now, which won't stay unnoticed by the users of mobile devices or the owners of old computers with little memory.


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 Post subject: lesson one
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Hej Hnolt =)

I read through lesson one and it is really great ^^
Though as a dane i dont need to learn so terrible much.

One thing which i think could be more detailed (though in laymans terms) is what 'stress' is. One thing you could mention is that the stress tends to fall on the first syllable in all germanic languages, also english.

Then you can give some english example so they can pronounch it and hear it for them selves, and get a feeling of it.
for example (Bold marks the stress)

car
baby
falcon

and also I think it is important to mention that in words which is formed by prefix + root, the stress falls on the second syllable (this is a rule for all germanic languages except modern icelandic).

forgive (for + give)
begotten (be + gotten)
aboard (a + board)

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Hrafnsmærki skal væifa í vindinum á ný aftr, Þat sum es in sanna Danibrók!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:18 am 
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Thank you Hrafn!

I will look at the lesson where the rules for stress are explained, and change them if there's something people don't understand. Hopefully we'll provide sound files sooner or later and they will show how stress is working in Nynorn, that's why I didn't want to go too much into details "on paper".

There's a lot of examples from Germanic languages when prefixes do have stress, you certainly know it from your mother tongue: bidrag, forhold, foreløbig, oprette etc. As for Nynorn, I don't think we'll be having lots of prefixes here, Norn was almost free of them, but.. in reasonable doses.. when we need them... why not. So watch this space!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:37 am 
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Glad to help =)

And yeah, you are right about those words, i never thought about them.
They are old compond words i guess.

though "foreløbigt" act like a word like "kattebakke". And that is also quit interresting.

And of course we have words like 'begynde', 'fortie' where the stress fall on the second syllable.

About the sound recordings i will consider to help ^^
I say consider since i hate to record myself and let other listen XD
But in any case i need to hear some examples first, expecially with the letter "ð", which cause me much confusion in faroese.

btw, i plan to send you and Londi a PDF version of jacobsens dictionary tomorrow. Have you seen the other stuff i sended lately?

Greetings -Hranf-
and good night :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Hrafn wrote:
About the sound recordings i will consider to help ^^
I say consider since i hate to record myself and let other listen XD
Thank you for your offer! But we've already got a guy who is doing the sound recordings, although it's been a while since I heard from him last..
Quote:
btw, i plan to send you and Londi a PDF version of jacobsens dictionary tomorrow. Have you seen the other stuff i sended lately?
Yes, everything arrived, check your mail! Wink


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Hey Hnolt

Your lessons seem nice to me ^^
But they requre skills in languages, as a beginner i would find this very difficult. But hey, many people does have the skills needed so i think =)

I maybe should finnish what i started with caithnessnorn and translation of Regin Smiður, and then get back to writing my old east norse course.

I can easily adapt it to norn, and translate it to english.
I am using this model: http://notendur.hi.is/haukurth/norse/
Here i started learning old norse :)

I some times recomand this old norse course for people who want to learn norn. Since this is a great beginner course, and you can easily learn norn after taking that.

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Hrafnsmærki skal væifa í vindinum á ný aftr, Þat sum es in sanna Danibrók!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:25 am 
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Hrafn wrote:
Hey Hnolt

Your lessons seem nice to me ^^
But they requre skills in languages, as a beginner i would find this very difficult. But hey, many people does have the skills needed so i think =)
I don't think the lessons are really so complex, apart from the fact that learning a new language isn't an easy thing in itself and does require some effort. But I really was trying to explain things in the simplest way. It was a really hard job, because a) I'd never written a language course like this before and I couldn't afford working on it on a full-time basis and b) Nynorn is far from being completed, so I had to invent many things on the fly, which also took its toll.

Anyway, if you think some parts of the lessons are difficult, just point them out and I'll try to fix it. The existing 5 lessons can be used primarily as a grammar reference. Later on I'll try to introduce some colloquial stuff to liven it up a bit and I'll be glad to receive help on it from everyone interested.
Quote:
I can easily adapt it to norn, and translate it to english.
I am using this model: http://notendur.hi.is/haukurth/norse/
Here i started learning old norse Smile

I some times recomand this old norse course for people who want to learn norn. Since this is a great beginner course, and you can easily learn norn after taking that.
I see that this guy is doing just the same thing as me, trying to explain the Old Norse grammar in a simple language. I'm just trying to let the reader learn and train each grammatical feature (a declension/conjugation type) separately, that's the main difference I think.


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 Post subject: Nynorn lessons
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:06 am 
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I had posted this message to Hnolt as a private message but in HNOLTS reply he indicated it should be posted to the forum. The following is my message followed by the reply
Hi Hnolt
I am attempting to learn Nynorn by using your online lessons. I have a very limited knowledge of Old Norse, and Faroese and a somewhat greater knowledge of Old English. I am aware of your attempt to revive Norn and I am interested in learning Nynorn.
Anyway I find your lessons quite clear and easy to follow. However one of my early problems is how to determine substantive noun classes strong and weak and type 1 and 2. You indicate in the lessons to check the dictionary. I assume you mean Jakobsen's dictionary.
The only dictionary I have access to is the online one at
http://nornlanguage.x10.mx/index.php?nynorn_dic which lists the nouns as m, f and n but does not indicate whether they are strong or weak or class 1 or 2 and what are the plural forms of the nouns.
Another problem I can see with reviving Norn is that the online dictionary is good for fishing, farming, weather and personal terms but is lacking modern terms ie it is still in the 17th century. However I am sure you are aware of that and have a plan to modernize the vocabulary.

Rogapl


Hi Rogapl,

Thank you for your message and for your interest in Nynorn in general!
I'm glad that you find the tutorial clear and comprehensible, this was my primary goal, to keep things simple and informative at the same time. In fact you're the first person who's telling me they are using the tutorial, which is much appreciated!

As for our dictionary, it is based on Jakob Jakobsen's etymological dictionary of (the real) Norn, which mostly includes fishery/farming/meteorological terms. Developing a new modern terminology is a very hard work, but we've already started working on it. You can see some up-to-date texts in Nynorn on our homepage, one of which has got a bit of mathematical terminology. Currently I'm re-working the code of the whole website and I plan to put all these new words into the dictionary as well as update the grammatical info, such as declension types and other grammar keys.

I can just tell you right now, that in many cases these types are the same as in Old Norse/Faroese, so meanwhile you could use grammatical information in the dictionaries of these languages for all respective words. Normally strong masculine words would belong to the 'hest' class and strong feminine to 'ferd'. Other classes don't have so many variations.

Of course, updating the dictionary will take a lot of time and effort whilst I and the other guys in our project can't afford working on it on full-time basis. So the development is going on in a rather relaxed way, slowly but surely. You will certainly see more updates by the summer time, I hope.

I also recommend you to post your thoughts and questions about the tutorial in the respective thread on the forum, where we will try to help you... as much as such an undeveloped language as Nynorn will allow it


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