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 Post subject: Týr - Regin Smiður
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Hej, I want to translate the faroese song Regin Smiður by the metal band Týr. I want to try to make a shetland nynorn version of it.

Help would be nice
Thanks ^^

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 Post subject: First stanza
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Here is a list of the word i translated =)

words with the star first is word i actually found in the dictionary, but made a littel change to. words with the star after is word i did not found and had to make up.

Faroese

Viljið tær nú lýða á
meðan eg man kvøða
Um teir ríku kongarnar
sum eg vil nú um røða


Nynorn

Viljið der nu *løda å
meðan* eg man* kveda*
en dir riku* kongarne
sen eg vil nu en røda*


'løda' is made from 'lød' (see Jakobens etymological dictionary)

'der' is not a translation of the faroese 'tær' (ON: 'þér'). As i could understand from the faroese dictionary i borrowed, the faroese forms (though old) for old norse 'þér' is:

(faroese = Old Norse dualis / Old Norse plural)
tær = þit / þér
tygur / tyður = ykkr / yðr
tygum / tyðum = ykkr / yðr
tygara / tyðara = ykkar / yðvar

Should we make corresponding norn forms, maybe just for poetic language?
We already got 'der'

:D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:18 am 
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1. Shetland Nynorn has "um" < "um", it's still preserved in words uppomjora < upp um eyra, umboth < umboð, and we need to distinguish it from "en" 'one'. However, changing "um" to "on" could also be considered. We have "en" for Orkney Nynorn though, if I remember correctly, see the examples:
http://nornlanguage.x10.mx/index.php?nynorn_dial

2. "Listen to" is "lø" according to our dictionary, so may be it should be "løða"? It will be closer to Far. "lýða".

3. þér > djer

This is my translation of the verse:

Viljið (vilja) djer nu løða å
meðan eg man (myn) kveda/kveða
um dir riku kongarne
sen eg vil nu um røða.

Vilja and myn are "real Nynorn" words, "viljið" and "man" - "archaic Nynorn".

P.S. "Archaic Nynorn" - never thought of such a combination Wink


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:41 am 
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I am in favor of "um". Danish has though all the heavy changes also preserved it as "om".

Yes, i am sorry i wasent more precisly. the word "lød < hlýða" can be found in Jakob Jakobens Etymological Dictionary, V. II, page 533.
I guess i is okei i use that :)

And yeah, Archair Nynorn :b
you see, to keep the rythm right i was thinking of using the old nominative -er, where faroese has -ur

We have allot of words with 'ð'. Do you think of this development is realistic: hlýða > løða > løda

We maybe whould consider this book:
Laurits Rendboe - The development of Shetland Norn

I am going to work on next stanza ^^

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 Post subject: second
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:19 am 
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Nynorn
Grani bar* gullið* av heði*
brå* hann sinon brandi* av vreði*/ reði*
? vo* å ormenon
Grani bar gullið* av heði*


Faroese:
Grani bar gullið av heiði
Brá hann sinum brandi av reiði
Sjúrður vá á orminum
Grani bar gullið av heiði

First, the word for "reiði". In old icelandic it is "reiði". in old norwegian it is "vreiði" and in old danish and old swedish it is "wræiði". (Modern danish: vrede). Old icelandic and faroese lost the 'v' before 'r', but did that happen to norn too?

Secondly i dont know what to do with Sjúrður (Danish; Sigurd). It comes from old norse Sigurðr, but how it maybe had changed into norn i dont know. But i want to preserve the nominative -er ending, so I imagen Sjurder

the word "vo", well it could be 'vå', but I made it from the danish form "vog", with dropped final 'g'.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:50 am 
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We used 'archaic nynorn' in Vøluspå also, remember? Wink

gull is 'goll' (Hildina 'ru godle')
heiði is 'hjæði/hjeði' (cf. Hjæbakka Heiðarbakki) or 'hedi' (cf. Hederdale' Heiðardalur) OBS 'hjæ[ði]' more common than 'hed[e]'
lýða is 'løð[a]' (lø); 'løda' is lita (colour)
Sjúrður is 'Sjurð or Sjurd'. According to Jakobsen was 'Sjurd' a common name i Shetland, cf. the Papa Stoor placename 'de Sjurategs' 'Sjúrða[r]-teigar'.

BTW, it's 'vreiði' in modern Faroese, this text is archaic (or dialect?) ballad language, hence 'reiði'.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Hrafn wrote:
First, the word for "reiði". In old icelandic it is "reiði". in old norwegian it is "vreiði" and in old danish and old swedish it is "wræiði". (Modern danish: vrede). Old icelandic and faroese lost the 'v' before 'r', but did that happen to norn too?
Ljun wrote:
BTW, it's 'vreiði' in modern Faroese, this text is archaic (or dialect?) ballad language, hence 'reiði'.

The West Scandinavian dialects of Old Norse dropped v in vr, while the East Scandinavian ones (Danish, Swedish) kept it and have done so far. I think that Faroese words with vr- come from Danish, sometimes co-existing with their West Scand. counterparts, like reiður - vreiður. I've found only 5 Faroese words with vr- and most of them have Danish cognates, but none Icelandic: vrak, vrá, vrevl, vriða/vríggja, vreiður.

Jakobsen doesn't show any examples with vr- in Shetland Norn except wrang which he marks as Scots (I'm not sure though it was spelled with w-).

Marwick gives 2 words in Orkney Norn, wrak 'seaweed' - Eng. wrack, ON (v)rek and wring which he interprets as a misspelling of ON árangr > *uring > wring. Not so much either.

I would omit vr in Nynorn unless we need it badly to distinguish between homonymous words.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:39 pm 
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So what do you think about this:

Grani bar gollið av hjæði
Brå hann sinon brandi av reði
Sjúrder vo å ormenon
Grani bar gollið av hjæði

in icelandic, 'vo' is 'vóg' from the verb 'vega'. Should we change norn vo to vog?

btw, i write 'Sjúrder', because if i remove -er, i move a syllable and it will breake the rythm. Or do you have a one syllable word we can put in? =)

And yes, Regin Smiður is archaic (So i've been told by faroese guy, and many words I look up in faroese dictionary is also noted with archaic and poetic)

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 Post subject: stanza 4
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Nynorn

Hundings synir i randargnø*
dir skaðan* gordu dar
edder* var i sverdenon*
dir boru* moti* mjer

Faroese

Hundings synir í randargný
teir skaðan gørdu har
Eitur var í svørinum
teir bóru móti mær

Some notes:
randargnø* (poetisk, lige som på oldnordisk, og færøsk)

gordu* (rekonstrueret ud fra foulanorn: guerde (fadervor), orknønorn gort (fadervor), og dansk: gjort, old norse: gørðu)

moti* (rekonstrueret ud fra orknønorn: motha)

And another thing, i found an example of preserved ð i shetlandnorn:
Køð [køð], kød [kød]
in Caithnessnorn and Orkneynorn it is: Koððin [kȯðɪn]
Old norse: *kœða
Norwegian: kjøda

See the PDF i sended you: J. Jakobsen „Nordiske minder, især sproglige på Orknøerne“, page 338 – 339 i „maal og minne“ (1911).

and for the pronounchiation for the shetland form see: J. Jakobsen's etymological dictionary, Volume 1, page 485

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Hrafn wrote:
So what do you think about this:

Grani bar gollið av hjæði
Brå hann sinon brandi av reði
Sjúrder vo å ormenon
Grani bar gollið av hjæði

There's no letter æ in standard Nynorn, hjeði works better.
Other than that everything looks fine.

Quote:
in icelandic, 'vo' is 'vóg' from the verb 'vega'. Should we change norn vo to vog?

is older, let's keep for Nynorn.
Quote:
btw, i write 'Sjúrder', because if i remove -er, i move a syllable and it will breake the rythm. Or do you have a one syllable word we can put in? =)

Can't think of a good one right now... You will certainly encounter more and more situations where the number of syllables is different or words no longer rhyme because of sound changes.


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