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Týr - Regin Smiður http://nornlanguage.x10.mx/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25 |
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Author: | Hrafn [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Týr - Regin Smiður |
Hej, I want to translate the faroese song Regin Smiður by the metal band Týr. I want to try to make a shetland nynorn version of it. Help would be nice Thanks ^^ |
Author: | Hrafn [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | First stanza |
Here is a list of the word i translated =) words with the star first is word i actually found in the dictionary, but made a littel change to. words with the star after is word i did not found and had to make up. Faroese Viljið tær nú lýða á meðan eg man kvøða Um teir ríku kongarnar sum eg vil nú um røða Nynorn Viljið der nu *løda å meðan* eg man* kveda* en dir riku* kongarne sen eg vil nu en røda* 'løda' is made from 'lød' (see Jakobens etymological dictionary) 'der' is not a translation of the faroese 'tær' (ON: 'þér'). As i could understand from the faroese dictionary i borrowed, the faroese forms (though old) for old norse 'þér' is: (faroese = Old Norse dualis / Old Norse plural) tær = þit / þér tygur / tyður = ykkr / yðr tygum / tyðum = ykkr / yðr tygara / tyðara = ykkar / yðvar Should we make corresponding norn forms, maybe just for poetic language? We already got 'der' :D |
Author: | Hnolt [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:18 am ] |
Post subject: | |
1. Shetland Nynorn has "um" < "um", it's still preserved in words uppomjora < upp um eyra, umboth < umboð, and we need to distinguish it from "en" 'one'. However, changing "um" to "on" could also be considered. We have "en" for Orkney Nynorn though, if I remember correctly, see the examples: http://nornlanguage.x10.mx/index.php?nynorn_dial 2. "Listen to" is "lø" according to our dictionary, so may be it should be "løða"? It will be closer to Far. "lýða". 3. þér > djer This is my translation of the verse: Viljið (vilja) djer nu løða å meðan eg man (myn) kveda/kveða um dir riku kongarne sen eg vil nu um røða. Vilja and myn are "real Nynorn" words, "viljið" and "man" - "archaic Nynorn". P.S. "Archaic Nynorn" - never thought of such a combination |
Author: | Hrafn [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:41 am ] |
Post subject: | |
I am in favor of "um". Danish has though all the heavy changes also preserved it as "om". Yes, i am sorry i wasent more precisly. the word "lød < hlýða" can be found in Jakob Jakobens Etymological Dictionary, V. II, page 533. I guess i is okei i use that :) And yeah, Archair Nynorn :b you see, to keep the rythm right i was thinking of using the old nominative -er, where faroese has -ur We have allot of words with 'ð'. Do you think of this development is realistic: hlýða > løða > løda We maybe whould consider this book: Laurits Rendboe - The development of Shetland Norn I am going to work on next stanza ^^ |
Author: | Hrafn [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:19 am ] |
Post subject: | second |
Nynorn Grani bar* gullið* av heði* brå* hann sinon brandi* av vreði*/ reði* ? vo* å ormenon Grani bar gullið* av heði* Faroese: Grani bar gullið av heiði Brá hann sinum brandi av reiði Sjúrður vá á orminum Grani bar gullið av heiði First, the word for "reiði". In old icelandic it is "reiði". in old norwegian it is "vreiði" and in old danish and old swedish it is "wræiði". (Modern danish: vrede). Old icelandic and faroese lost the 'v' before 'r', but did that happen to norn too? Secondly i dont know what to do with Sjúrður (Danish; Sigurd). It comes from old norse Sigurðr, but how it maybe had changed into norn i dont know. But i want to preserve the nominative -er ending, so I imagen Sjurder the word "vo", well it could be 'vå', but I made it from the danish form "vog", with dropped final 'g'. |
Author: | Ljun [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:50 am ] |
Post subject: | |
We used 'archaic nynorn' in Vøluspå also, remember? gull is 'goll' (Hildina 'ru godle') heiði is 'hjæði/hjeði' (cf. Hjæbakka Heiðarbakki) or 'hedi' (cf. Hederdale' Heiðardalur) OBS 'hjæ[ði]' more common than 'hed[e]' lýða is 'løð[a]' (lø); 'løda' is lita (colour) Sjúrður is 'Sjurð or Sjurd'. According to Jakobsen was 'Sjurd' a common name i Shetland, cf. the Papa Stoor placename 'de Sjurategs' 'Sjúrða[r]-teigar'. BTW, it's 'vreiði' in modern Faroese, this text is archaic (or dialect?) ballad language, hence 'reiði'. |
Author: | Hnolt [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Hrafn wrote: First, the word for "reiði". In old icelandic it is "reiði". in old norwegian it is "vreiði" and in old danish and old swedish it is "wræiði". (Modern danish: vrede). Old icelandic and faroese lost the 'v' before 'r', but did that happen to norn too? Ljun wrote: BTW, it's 'vreiði' in modern Faroese, this text is archaic (or dialect?) ballad language, hence 'reiði'. The West Scandinavian dialects of Old Norse dropped v in vr, while the East Scandinavian ones (Danish, Swedish) kept it and have done so far. I think that Faroese words with vr- come from Danish, sometimes co-existing with their West Scand. counterparts, like reiður - vreiður. I've found only 5 Faroese words with vr- and most of them have Danish cognates, but none Icelandic: vrak, vrá, vrevl, vriða/vríggja, vreiður. Jakobsen doesn't show any examples with vr- in Shetland Norn except wrang which he marks as Scots (I'm not sure though it was spelled with w-). Marwick gives 2 words in Orkney Norn, wrak 'seaweed' - Eng. wrack, ON (v)rek and wring which he interprets as a misspelling of ON árangr > *uring > wring. Not so much either. I would omit vr in Nynorn unless we need it badly to distinguish between homonymous words. |
Author: | Hrafn [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
So what do you think about this: Grani bar gollið av hjæði Brå hann sinon brandi av reði Sjúrder vo å ormenon Grani bar gollið av hjæði in icelandic, 'vo' is 'vóg' from the verb 'vega'. Should we change norn vo to vog? btw, i write 'Sjúrder', because if i remove -er, i move a syllable and it will breake the rythm. Or do you have a one syllable word we can put in? =) And yes, Regin Smiður is archaic (So i've been told by faroese guy, and many words I look up in faroese dictionary is also noted with archaic and poetic) |
Author: | Hrafn [ Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | stanza 4 |
Nynorn Hundings synir i randargnø* dir skaðan* gordu dar edder* var i sverdenon* dir boru* moti* mjer Faroese Hundings synir í randargný teir skaðan gørdu har Eitur var í svørinum teir bóru móti mær Some notes: randargnø* (poetisk, lige som på oldnordisk, og færøsk) gordu* (rekonstrueret ud fra foulanorn: guerde (fadervor), orknønorn gort (fadervor), og dansk: gjort, old norse: gørðu) moti* (rekonstrueret ud fra orknønorn: motha) And another thing, i found an example of preserved ð i shetlandnorn: Køð [køð], kød [kød] in Caithnessnorn and Orkneynorn it is: Koððin [kȯðɪn] Old norse: *kœða Norwegian: kjøda See the PDF i sended you: J. Jakobsen „Nordiske minder, især sproglige på Orknøerne“, page 338 – 339 i „maal og minne“ (1911). and for the pronounchiation for the shetland form see: J. Jakobsen's etymological dictionary, Volume 1, page 485 |
Author: | Hnolt [ Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Hrafn wrote: So what do you think about this: Grani bar gollið av hjæði Brå hann sinon brandi av reði Sjúrder vo å ormenon Grani bar gollið av hjæði There's no letter æ in standard Nynorn, hjeði works better. Other than that everything looks fine. Quote: in icelandic, 'vo' is 'vóg' from the verb 'vega'. Should we change norn vo to vog? vá is older, let's keep vå for Nynorn. Quote: btw, i write 'Sjúrder', because if i remove -er, i move a syllable and it will breake the rythm. Or do you have a one syllable word we can put in? =) Can't think of a good one right now... You will certainly encounter more and more situations where the number of syllables is different or words no longer rhyme because of sound changes. |
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