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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:14 pm 
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[the] project [...] aims at reconstruction of Norn as a usable language.

"reconstruction" or "construction" ?

I've understood the aim of the project, but one question remains. Is the Nynorn a reconstructed language or a constructed language ?
I think that your answer will be : "it's a constructed language (because ny-) based on reconstructed language".

But in fact, the first step (the reconstruction) is in my opinion not really clear in the communication part of the website. I mean there is a kind of mix between phonology and orthography. I understand that the final aim is to make an orthographic language, but isn't the reconstruction supposed to be founded on exclusively phonological representation ? And further the construction based on orthographic representation ?

Just the mix of phonological arguments and orthographic representation can confound linguistical and sociological facts.

What do you think ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Well, I'm not quite getting what you are saying in this topic... Reconstruction is a particular instance of construction, isn't it? Our reconstruction is far from being completed, may be this gives you an impression of it being "phonological/orthographical". But it does have a grammar and a number of texts, so there's some more to it than just that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Yes, I understand, we can't compare for exemple norse in Normandy which doesn't have any text, and norn which have some texts... But I occasionaly read that these texts (on paper) are not in norn, but in some norwegian dialects (which are near). Of course, there is a difference.

But in this case, why to call that "reconstruction". If norn do has a done grammar, a lexicon, a phonological system, and so on... allready ! So there is no reconstruction to do. Isn't it ?
But I guess norn doesn't have all that. And that's why you are reconstructing. Isn't it ?

And especially in phonetics/phonology reconstruction, the use of orthographic representation may be a little bit strange. I mean, it's phoneticaly ambiguous, and it's not verified by a phonological model.

I mean for exemple about the dropp of /j/ following /dr/, the question may be "why does it drop" ? And the answer could answer to an other problematic.

Finaly, it would be best to verify all datas within a phonological model... One exemple : do you have evidences of existence or non-existence of tones in norn ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Well, the question of using or not using the word "reconstruction" has no relevance to me, I even don't want to discuss it any longer. I think everything is clear for those who can make a difference between Norn and Nynorn. I'm also surprised by your point that Norn didn't have a grammar, lexicon, phonology.. how could it not???

As for the phonological system.. did you mean drawing a phoneme chart or something like that? I could certainly have done it, but I didn't have time for everything and I doubted anyone would be interested in it. I think phonologists won't have problems with understanding the phonology of Nynorn.

The question "why j drops after dr-' in Norn (and in Faroese as well) is very interesting indeed, may be one to think more about some time in the future...

As for tones, there's no evidence of their existence in Norn and they are not known in Faroese and Icelandic which are among the closest languages to Norn.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:05 am 
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I think you misunderstood me.
Quote:
I'm also surprised by your point that Norn didn't have a grammar, lexicon, phonology.. how could it not???

I didn't mean that norn didn't have any grammar. Of course it cannot be. All languages have grammar. I meant that we actually don't know the whole system of norn. Isn't it ? Some things are lost. And that's why you are "reconstructed" it.
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I doubted anyone would be interested in it

It interests me... But I think this sentence answers to my question. And I think I do better understand your project than before. I though nynorn is a kind of normalized language based on reconstructed norn. It would suppose that there is a work on norn reconstruction, and a second work on normalization.

But, I realise that this project is maybe more a normalization than a reconstruction. And in that way, it's maybe more a "construction". Do you understand what I mean ? In the same way as finnish language is a "constructed" language on a dialectal base.

Am I right ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Well, it has both, if you want, construction and reconstruction. But as I've said above, reconstruction is a particular case of construction, so that's probably where it comes from!


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